Views on abortion?

Voggis wrote:

Heat wrote:

Yeah but you know what...Too bad for the mom...She should have though about that BEFORE spreading her legs....

So....the man have no responsibility, what so ever? I think I have 50% of the responsibility for each of the kids I have made.

If I had made a woman pregnant on a one night stand, it would have been half my fault that I let that happened.
Condoms not only prevent unwanted pregancy, but also the only safe protection against sexually transmitted diseases.

That's not what I said ..I was responding to Thorns where he said, and I qoute. "But i must say i can't be much fun for the mum to go through all the pregnancy just to give the kid away."

I kinda think adoption is the right way to go... If you just cant take care of it...you should try to find someone who can and will love and take the best care of your child. For those people your child could be a great blessing, if they aren't able to have children of their own. You can pass it on to a family that will treat it as their own, and maybe you will have put someone into the world who actually deserves life, right?
But...killing it just because you cant take the pain of giving it away? What fucked up horse-shit egoistic irony is that?

^^ lol

agreed 1000000%

Maybe some people don't agree...but that just seems the most humane way of dealing with something as "unfortunate" as an unwanted pregnancy...

BravoYankeeEcho wrote:

I kinda think adoption is the right way to go... If you just cant take care of it...you should try to find someone who can and will love and take the best care of your child. For those people your child could be a great blessing, if they aren't able to have children of their own. You can pass it on to a family that will treat it as their own, and maybe you will have put someone into the world who actually deserves life, right?
But...killing it just because you cant take the pain of giving it away? What fucked up horse-shit egoistic irony is that?

I LOVE YOU JOHN TRAVOLTA!!!

Heat wrote:

The argument has nothing to do with how will it affect "you" Who are you? No one....

That last bit wasn't the important part. I'll edit it out

Tackling this from several points of view:

Religious: Monotheistic religion does not count the fetus as a life. Exodus 21:22-25. Look it up.

Ethical: There is no set system of ethics.

Medical: Consciousness develops last in humans. It's not developed enough for thought at birth. Any pain reactions are really just instinctive responses. For the first two trimesters, at least, it might as well be considered an organ. It's not as much 'murder' as it is the removal of a functionless body part.

Societal: Whenever abortion has been banned, its lead to an increase in crime rate and black markets. Also, women died via back ally abortions or mutilated themselves with coat hangers. Even if you don't like abortion, society is better off with it legal.

Political: Politics should have no involvement in abortion at all. It's not up to the government to determine what women should keep in their vaginas.

Other personal views: If someone gets an abortion, there's no harm done to me. I don't support it as an alternative to birth control and people should decide earlier than later, since no one should neglect such an important decision for so long, but it's not up to me to determine what people do. In fact, I think the major problem is the hype built up for abortion. Singling someone out as an abortionist is almost as bad as singling someone out as a Communist in the McCarthy era. Look at the cases of people like Tiller who were killed because of of directed violent hatred for abortion doctors. At least the fetus doesn't have to concern itself with a group of insane would be cultists hating it, cursing its existence, belittling it, threatening it, attacking it and eventually murdering it in cold blood.

^nailed it

Hungryfreak wrote:

Tackling this from several points of view:

Religious: Monotheistic religion does not count the fetus as a life. Exodus 21:22-25. Look it up.

Ethical: There is no set system of ethics.

Medical: Consciousness develops last in humans. It's not developed enough for thought at birth. Any pain reactions are really just instinctive responses. For the first two trimesters, at least, it might as well be considered an organ. It's not as much 'murder' as it is the removal of a functionless body part.

Societal: Whenever abortion has been banned, its lead to an increase in crime rate and black markets. Also, women died via back ally abortions or mutilated themselves with coat hangers. Even if you don't like abortion, society is better off with it legal.

Political: Politics should have no involvement in abortion at all. It's not up to the government to determine what women should keep in their vaginas.

Other personal views: If someone gets an abortion, there's no harm done to me. I don't support it as an alternative to birth control and people should decide earlier than later, since no one should neglect such an important decision for so long, but it's not up to me to determine what people do. In fact, I think the major problem is the hype built up for abortion. Singling someone out as an abortionist is almost as bad as singling someone out as a Communist in the McCarthy era. Look at the cases of people like Tiller who were killed because of of directed violent hatred for abortion doctors. At least the fetus doesn't have to concern itself with a group of insane would be cultists hating it, cursing its existence, belittling it, threatening it, attacking it and eventually murdering it in cold blood.

Ohhh theres gonna be some fireworks with this.... ha

No attempt at debate within two days... Did I win?

yes major win

lol i guess each one has their own opinion

you cant say what im saying is wrong, and i cant say what YOURE saying is wrong either. thats why its called a DEBATABLE subject. so yeah...the point of this is to know opinions, not who wins and who looses

but yeah iono

plus im too lazy to argue atm

Personally I don't like any abortions, cuz it's a fuckin' murder

Set Abominae wrote:

Hungryfreak wrote:

Tackling this from several points of view:

Religious: Monotheistic religion does not count the fetus as a life. Exodus 21:22-25. Look it up.

Ethical: There is no set system of ethics.

Medical: Consciousness develops last in humans. It's not developed enough for thought at birth. Any pain reactions are really just instinctive responses. For the first two trimesters, at least, it might as well be considered an organ. It's not as much 'murder' as it is the removal of a functionless body part.

Societal: Whenever abortion has been banned, its lead to an increase in crime rate and black markets. Also, women died via back ally abortions or mutilated themselves with coat hangers. Even if you don't like abortion, society is better off with it legal.

Political: Politics should have no involvement in abortion at all. It's not up to the government to determine what women should keep in their vaginas.

Other personal views: If someone gets an abortion, there's no harm done to me. I don't support it as an alternative to birth control and people should decide earlier than later, since no one should neglect such an important decision for so long, but it's not up to me to determine what people do. In fact, I think the major problem is the hype built up for abortion. Singling someone out as an abortionist is almost as bad as singling someone out as a Communist in the McCarthy era. Look at the cases of people like Tiller who were killed because of of directed violent hatred for abortion doctors. At least the fetus doesn't have to concern itself with a group of insane would be cultists hating it, cursing its existence, belittling it, threatening it, attacking it and eventually murdering it in cold blood.

Nailed it indeed!

I am partial to agree with Hunfryfreak. I am just not as good as him at getting my point across, so I'll leave it at that.

Montslaveden wrote:

Personally I don't like any abortions, cuz it's a fuckin' murder

but herein lies the problem... you dont have to agree with ppl who want abortions... but its their right to get one... you dont want one dont get one... im not saying you are forcing your opinion on anyone... but alot of ppl are and thats why its such a big issue

Yeah, but you dont let people just go around murdering other people just because they want to and because it's "none of your business". The point to this argument is that the unborn child can't protect itsself and say: "Woah what the hell, I don't wanna get sucked out of my free milk-bar!" We can basically assume that if an unborn fetus could speak, its not likely say "bring on the vacuum, doc!" The procedure is not like having your titties resized, since its not really a PART of your body without conscience.
The question is, does the unborn fetus have the legal right to be protected from abortion BY LAW, or if it does not count as a living creature until it passes a certain age, thus rendering it without legal rights until that point.

A fetus is only capable of short term memory in its latest hours as a fetus. It is not capable of thought until a while after its birth. You can think of it as something with the capability of becoming a child, but every sperm and egg has that capability. Hell, if cloning technology ever becomes practical, every strand of DNA in every cell of your body has that capability.

If it was a child, abortion isn't all about bloodthirsty doctors who want to eat the hearts of unborn children. What if the mother would die? What if the child would live with a horrible debilitating disease? What if the family couldn't possibly support the child financially? Mentally? Physically? There will always be cases where someone decides last minute for some stupid reason like not wanting a baby anymore, but would you really ruin the lives of the mothers, potential children and families because you dislike a few idiots? Not many people have abortions for shits and giggles.

Never said that. I was replying to Set's post.

Ah, sorry about that. Point stands regardless.

well as hungry said... a fetus is not technically a consciousness yet, so your technically not killing anyone.

Well, that's sorta my problem anyway. I haven't decided for myself yet, since I can understand and identify with both sides... It just seemed that most people here tended to be pro, so I figured I'd present some counter-arguments. If they'd have a vote today, I honestly couldn't say which side I would vote for...

I'll have to look up Exodus 21:22-25, as you mentioned earlier.

Montslaveden wrote:

Personally I don't like any abortions

mash is an abortion. are you saying you dont like him?