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 Do You Believe In God

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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:18 pm

ValhallanKnight wrote:
I can't say that I hate "christianity." Christianity itself is not inherently a bad thing, its based on good ideas. Its just that people decided to use it as a basis for a power structure, which entirely changed the face of it. It essentially bastardized everything that jesus taught. Jesus did not teach dogma, he taught that you should "Be Excellent To Each Other" regardless of other circumstances. He taught that you should give of yourself, and you shall recieve. That is what he taught, but when you try to use the bible as a basis for a power structure, you begin to loose the actual meanings of what jesus said, or you cannot focus on them, cause they arent beneficial to holding power. You have to instead focus on dogmatic elemnts, which jesus preached against using on others. That is why most people that ACTUALLY say they hate christianity say they hate it. They don't hate christianity, they hate the church as a power structure, which it is.

Very very true..
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:54 pm

I Think you all should see the documentary Religulous!

The finishing word are just great, " for mankind to survive, religion must die"


Im glad that Sweden got such a low precentage of people with " christian beliefs".
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:04 pm

I watched it..uhm, a part of it. Leaving people in confusion is worse than them following something that's not actually evil. People in a confused state tend to cling to any belief, cult or faith so that they'd be accepted by other people. Most people are not strong, mentally that is, to lead themselves, they need a leader who will soothe them with his thoughts.
Not everyone's equal, we all have our shortcomings..
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:16 pm

That is true, most people are weak minded. To bad that thoose who want to belong to some sort of "group" clings on the first one reaching out to them instead of searching for something by their own standars or just help. Many of theese cults and so on, always act as friendly as possible to trick/recruit people to their own.

And this often go as far, as the church directly collects about half of their salary in some cases.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:07 pm

ValhallanKnight wrote:
Jesus did not teach dogma, he taught that you should "Be Excellent To Each Other" regardless of other circumstances

I would say that as soon as they started writing things like commandments it moved into dogma, jesus may not have spread dogma but the bible is utterly full of it.

@Andreea, I have read your messages a few times now, and I still think that herd instinct brings far more people towards religion than against, and to an extent is always going to happen (people like to follow other people, its a fact).
My main reasons to hate christianity, are that their god doesn't feel bound by the same rules as humans, and does some really nasty stuff, the concept that children are responsible for their parents deeds, the whole idea of faith, the opposition to sex for fun, the whole concept of blasphemy, the exclusivity of it, the fact that the bible basically says that eternal damnation for all that don't follow it is a good thing, I could list for ages if you really want. The slavery thing was in response to ValhallanKnight. Finally, don't confuse understanding with agreement, just because I don't agree with what you say, doesn't mean I don't understand it.

Cheers : )
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:06 am

Edible wrote:
ValhallanKnight wrote:
Jesus did not teach dogma, he taught that you should "Be Excellent To Each Other" regardless of other circumstances

I would say that as soon as they started writing things like commandments it moved into dogma, jesus may not have spread dogma but the bible is utterly full of it.

@Andreea, I have read your messages a few times now, and I still think that herd instinct brings far more people towards religion than against, and to an extent is always going to happen (people like to follow other people, its a fact).
My main reasons to hate christianity, are that their god doesn't feel bound by the same rules as humans, and does some really nasty stuff, the concept that children are responsible for their parents deeds, the whole idea of faith, the opposition to sex for fun, the whole concept of blasphemy, the exclusivity of it, the fact that the bible basically says that eternal damnation for all that don't follow it is a good thing, I could list for ages if you really want. The slavery thing was in response to ValhallanKnight. Finally, don't confuse understanding with agreement, just because I don't agree with what you say, doesn't mean I don't understand it.

Cheers : )

You must understand something so you can agree or disagree.You did not understand my messages so from my point of view you were not supposed to have an opinion about them, to agree or disagree.

The herd instinct is everywhere, not only in hating or loving a religion. The herd instinct unites people around a religion ( not only christianity, but also islam - you are an example - , buddhism etc etc etc ==> mistake : people talk only about christinity, just like you do ) but it also unites them against a religion, a political regime, a law, a decision ( and vice versa in the last 3 examples ). My sentence with the herd instinct did not refer only to people who hate christianity - you would have understood this from my reply to mash.

You hate christianity. I did not suggest people to love christianity. You are as well a part of the herd who hates christianity, because you hate it from some interesting reasons ( some are old, out of date as you would say) , reasons which you can find in other religions as well, or maybe in a more radical way : Islam; and the old test is from Judaism. My point is : the fashionable thing is that people say only Christianity and not islam or judaism or other religions, beliefs etc etc, which can be worse than christianity or even the same; people say i hate christianity without thinking why they hate it and if it is only christianity which i must hate; they do not try to understand by meditating upon it, understanding it not in the way you think o.0 ==> you would have understood all this from my first message and the other ones, especially those sent as answers to ValhallanKing.

Christianity does not have any power nowadays, as you are trying to say (maybe as a institution but not as a religion). It had in the medieval ages, and lots of it. If it has in the poor countries, well that is not christianity's problem; the problem is with those people, who are limited. Ex. : the problem that occurred in Africa ===> lack of welfare -> limited people -> disaster. Same thing with islam: limited people transform a religion into a monster in the XXI century. pfff
Another mistake of yours is that you don't know christianity. You are talking only about Catholicism. - so your idea about christianity is limited to catholicism. ( the power thing, the slavery etc etc - even if slavery has nothing to do with christianity or any religion at all o.0 ).

Once again : the ugly characteristics that you are showing about christianity can be seen in other religions; all of them.

Stop trying to convince me of Christianity as being a bad thing, and implement your ideas in my brain. I have my own ideas and I won't join Islam o.0 - you know what i am talking about. On this forum you are allowed to share your opinion not brainwash people.
This is my first and last message in which I am explaining my messages. Don't reply to me ever again if you have no idea what I am talking about.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:35 am

^^ Thats some serious thought.

In developing countries, Christianity has a big hand in the development of people below the poverty line who cannot afford necessities such as medication, clothing and food. For example, in India, 23% of all medical establishments belong to the Church, and christians form only ~4% of the total population.
Some fraudulent 'denominations' have given a bad name to the religion, and so has the history of Christianity, especially during the middle ages where the concept of Christendom existed, the pope having all the powers..isn't actually the teachings of Jesus. Some men sought the chance to be more powerful and hence Christianity as we see today.
If religions are to be judged based on current issues, don't you think Islam is atleast a little more dangerous'?A little more Brutal? A little more forced? A little opposed to human rights? Opposed to freedom?

As I view it, Christianity is one of the most lenient religions around. I didn't hear of a death penalty to Dan Brown when his Da VInci Code was published. Christianity has lost most of its power.

Organized religions are not from "God", but, from man. The evil lies in man itself..
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:03 am

ron.deathorgy wrote:
^^ Thats some serious thought.

In developing countries, Christianity has a big hand in the development of people below the poverty line who cannot afford necessities such as medication, clothing and food. For example, in India, 23% of all medical establishments belong to the Church, and christians form only ~4% of the total population.
Some fraudulent 'denominations' have given a bad name to the religion, and so has the history of Christianity, especially during the middle ages where the concept of Christendom existed, the pope having all the powers..isn't actually the teachings of Jesus. Some men sought the chance to be more powerful and hence Christianity as we see today.
If religions are to be judged based on current issues, don't you think Islam is atleast a little more dangerous'?A little more Brutal? A little more forced? A little opposed to human rights? Opposed to freedom?

As I view it, Christianity is one of the most lenient religions around. I didn't hear of a death penalty to Dan Brown when his Da VInci Code was published. Christianity has lost most of its power.

Organized religions are not from "God", but, from man. The evil lies in man itself..

Exactly! This is very true! ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:21 am

@Andreea I do not support islam? What gave you this idea? Please don't strawman me. I pretty much hate all religions that I know about, and have said this earlier in the thread, read my posts, but this discussion appears to be sofar about Christianity primarily, . I have a good understanding of the differences between catholics and the rest, the bible however does encourage slavery in several parts.
Frankly how the fuck am I brainwashing you. I am arguing a point.
Christianity has plenty of power, very little of it formal, but as it is a large enough force with enough devout followers it has power.

"Once again : the ugly characteristics that you are showing about christianity can be seen in other religions; all of them."
Exactly


@ron.deathorgy, Islam is scary too, but I know far less muslims and the ones near where I am tend to be more mild that the christians near where I am, but if I was in the US or middle east I would agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:27 am

Practically every country that has muslims in it has witnessed horrible incidents of violence (honour killings, severe punishment, discrimination againnst homosexuals)
On comparison, Christianity is a peaceful religion.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:48 am

I certainly wouldn't say that considering its past. At the moment yes it is more peaceful but crusades and witchhunts are hardly peaceful.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:35 am

Edible wrote:
I certainly wouldn't say that considering its past. At the moment yes it is more peaceful but crusades and witchhunts are hardly peaceful.

Other religions have a past as well, and a bloody one i might say. o.0

Actually, the conversation was not about christianity; I was talking about other religions as well, and you made it become the way it is right now.

Oh..Jihad is peaceful too ^^ I so like it.. i was thinking of becoming one of its soldiers ^^
Killing people with stones is nice too. ^^ I would love my uncle with my cousins crack my head with a block of cement and tear my clothes up in the middle of the street ^^ as it happened to one muslim teenager ^^ I would love people to put me into a big white blanket, dig a whole in the ground , put me there, cover it up, let my head outside , and then kick it with stones ^^ I would love the police officers to cut my right hand and left leg ^^ I would love being kicked with a chair by my future bed buddy ^^ I would absolutely love being stabbed several times by my brother just because i looked at a boy during a weeding, as it happened to a jordanian muslim girl ^^ etc etc etc the examples are so many ...so many ... but don't have time and space i suppose to write them all.. it would be so boring .. o.o

Supporting islam?! Well that is quite easy :
- you hate religions but you do not hate islam ( very very odd )
- you hate christianity and judaism but not islam -the only one which you do not hate- ( even if it is a religion and you hate religions as i wrote above - odd indeed )
- your muslim neighbours are cool but the christian ones are a bunch of crazy evil people
- you just can't stop throwing with mud in christianity even if there are worse than it
- judging it by its past ( cruel one indeed but not based on belief but on politics as i said ) even if other ones had a past as well but you are too blind to see it ( or there is something else .... )
- hating christianity because of something it does not stand for but you do

(your neighbours now)
Q. : why are the muslim ones are good?
A. : we have no idea

Q. : why are the christians evil ?
A. : we have no idea

Q. : how come all your christian neighbours are evil ? not one kind christian
A. : hmmmm.. well we do not have the question but the situation is quite odd...

Q. : how come all the muslims are good ?
A. : another odd one without an aswer....

Conclusion no.1 : one christian kid made fun of you so you decided to hate all christians and a muslim kid told you something like " ohhh my poor fellow, allah loves you allah needs you .. do not be hurt by that christian pig's words .. allah loves you" blah blah

Conclusion no.2 : your story is just a story... pure science fiction .. very interesting one but boring and silly even for cinema... o.0 So you were trying to tell me that christians are evil and muslim good people so that is why islam is good and nobody should hate it.

You actually replied to me because in my first message i said that everybody hates christianity but nobody mentions anything about judaism or islam .. so you thought it is your duty to throw with mud in chrisianity so i won't think of bad stuff about islam... that is why you were talking over and over and over again only about christianity even if i was not talking only about it... so you changed this conversation into one about christianity... it is one of your obsession i suppose..

Christianity has no power.. i think you have some problems.. you are like a tape ... saying the same things over and over again ... no argument, no facts .. nothing at all .. the so called arguments of yours are just dry .. nothing stable .. nothing convincing .. and obviously i can't take it as your opinion.. i see no opinions.. just a bunch of stereotypes ...

and what " the rest" ? which are the rest .. what is the rest ?????? tell it without using google .. but can't do anything about it because you will sure use google ^^
see... you know nothing about christianity ... same common stuff over and over again ..

and you were not arguing a point .. you were trying to convince me of your point .. o.0

P.S. : you are not allowed to swear on the forum nor insult any of the users.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:36 am

one more thing .. where do you live ?
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:18 pm

New Zealand, specifically wellington, there are far too many madly homophobic christains, and I have several gay friends who get shit from them a lot.

I would say that all religions have nasty pasts, it would be fucking hard to calculate which has killed the most, but I would say most likely islam at the top with chrisitanity a close second, and both have had their share of killing, the history of england is worth reading.

I have stated that I hate organised religions, islam is an organized religion so QED I hate it, however the local muslims keep to themselves and don't disturb me so I don't really care about them, ditto the jewish folks. However the christains give my friends shit so are more of an issue, I am sure that if there were 20% muslims in the local population it would be an issue, but as it stands they are outranked by jedi by about 2 to 1 according to the census data.

" i see no opinions.."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion
Yours are hardly backed up with hard fact either.

Where is there a rules list banning swearing?
Where am I insulting you?

I have nothing to gain from convincing a random person on the internet, it is more interesting to argue and see what points they make.

The rest is every non catholic sect, mostly round here we get baptists, anglicans, presbyterians, methodists, pentecostals and a few lumps of closed brethren (they have a big concrete bunker/church down the end of my road, but seem okay and tend to leave everyone alone).

As to proving I know without google/wiki/whateverelse. That is actually imposable so I am not going to try.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:59 am

Edible wrote:
New Zealand, specifically wellington, there are far too many madly homophobic christains, and I have several gay friends who get shit from them a lot.

I would say that all religions have nasty pasts, it would be fucking hard to calculate which has killed the most, but I would say most likely islam at the top with chrisitanity a close second, and both have had their share of killing, the history of england is worth reading.

I have stated that I hate organised religions, islam is an organized religion so QED I hate it, however the local muslims keep to themselves and don't disturb me so I don't really care about them, ditto the jewish folks. However the christains give my friends shit so are more of an issue, I am sure that if there were 20% muslims in the local population it would be an issue, but as it stands they are outranked by jedi by about 2 to 1 according to the census data.

" i see no opinions.."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion
Yours are hardly backed up with hard fact either.

Where is there a rules list banning swearing?
Where am I insulting you?

I have nothing to gain from convincing a random person on the internet, it is more interesting to argue and see what points they make.

The rest is every non catholic sect, mostly round here we get baptists, anglicans, presbyterians, methodists, pentecostals and a few lumps of closed brethren (they have a big concrete bunker/church down the end of my road, but seem okay and tend to leave everyone alone).

As to proving I know without google/wiki/whateverelse. That is actually imposable so I am not going to try.

oh i see.. New Zealand then .. odd I really thought you were from the middle east.

I said "and obviously i can't take it as your opinion( the things you said )..( because ) i see no opinions.. just a bunch of stereotypes .." - because i cannot see your own opinion, i cannot take it as your own opinion ( " i can't take it as your opinion" ) - but, "just a bunch of stereotypes " - common opinions, not your own - so i cannot take it as your opinion - and you cannot prove that those things are your opinions because they aren't - just common ones, so in this case i cannot take it as your own opinions.

When I registered i read that users must treat each other well or something like that and that they cannot use the short forms of words - not like "can't" instead of "cannot".. they were talking about the letter U instead of you and things like that.(maybe it was on another forum o.o can't remember ). You did not insult me. I said you mustn't swear on the forum nor insult people ( but i did not mean that you insulted me; just my sentences o.0 ).

Well, I have always given examples when i was trying to explain something; not examples from my private life - just like you did - but from what i have seen, things that everybody knows but not stereotypes - as you did. It is quite hard to believe in someone's life story without an evidence of what happened - I am talking about you in this sentence.

As I said : your knowledge about christianity is limited to catholicism.

Christianity : - Catholicism - Protestantism - Baptists
- Calvinism
- Swinglianism
- pentecostals
- methodists
- anglicans etc
( there is also neoprotestantism - but i have no idea which of the protestant sects mentioned above are just protestant and which are neoprotestant so i put them only into protestantism - just wanted you to know that i am aware of that fact that some are from neo too )
- Orthodoxy
- Oriental Orthodoxy ( not the same thing with Orthodoxy - or "eastern" as west christians - catholics - use to call it o.0 )

Orthodoxy ( eastern european christianity ) is the second biggest and important branch of christianity and unlike catholicism, it is based more on spiritualism than having more orthodox-fanatics . It has never been modernized ( modifying the "meeting" thing at the church like catholicsm did - that is why people consider it boring unlike catholicism - and they do not have chairs either ) nor reformed. It has nevr tried to gain more people, like catholicism did. Ex. : never tried to convince our neighbours hungarians to become orthodox nor our turkish battle mates; in transylvania ohrthodox were quite obliged to become catholics so the pope can have more power and more people, wanted to introduce catholicism in eastern europe too. ==> that is why orthodoxy remained in eastern europe.
It did not have any inquisition, so called witches nor burning people cases. If the patriarch was the second most important person in the countries, he was not taking decisions in the name of religion, but in the name of politics, interests. Orthodoxy, because it has been a conservative branch of christianity, helped every eastern european nation maintain its national identity - except for those people who were directly under the command of the ottomans and some became muslims - muslims which burnt very old and important from the historical and architectural point of view churches - in kosovo ( it really helped in our case to maintain the identity o.0 ). )
And as you can see no sect got out of orthodoxy.

Well, I believe that humans give religion a shape and not religion to humans. It depends on the environment in which your neighbours have grown up. Nobody is telling them to kill or insult other people; it is their choice. As i said in another message, it depends on the people.. if they are limited or not. and, when you are a minority you can't just do whatever you want in a foreign country : lack of respect for those people and lack of humanity i might say or even lack of a proper education .. but it seems that in europe, muslims really got insane.. unless they were already.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:06 am

pffff o.0

Correct form :


Christianity :

-Catholicism - Protestantism - Calvinism, pentecostals etc etc
-Orthodoxy
-Oriental Orthodoxy
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:10 am

The idea of organised religion does not appeal to me.

Spirituality is a personal thing. I do not appreciate being told what to believe about an issue that is undefinable and, really, only theoretical.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:15 am

tunedtothedevil wrote:
The idea of organised religion does not appeal to me.

Spirituality is a personal thing. I do not appreciate being told what to believe about an issue that is undefinable and, really, only theoretical.

True! ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:59 am

Might I recommend the edit button for fixing things, it is preferable at least to me, over double posts.

As far as I am concerned everyone that considers themselves christian is a christian, if you want to defend your specific sect, that is cool and you may be right, I know little to nothing about "eastern european christianinity" and so will assume its okay, but as far as christianity as a whole goes it is to an extent responsible for all that is done in its name.

"your knowledge about christianity is limited to catholicism"

I think most christians I know a protestants of some form, which at least according to them is not catholicism.

Nobody is telling anyone to go and kill things, but if someone reads your book and decides to do so, you should consider why.

"not examples from my private life - just like you did - but from what i have seen"

What exactly does this mean, isn't what you see your private life and vice versa.

"but i did not mean that you insulted me; just my sentences o.0 ."

How exactly does one insult a sentence? I am confused.

"And you cannot prove that those things are your opinions because they aren't - just common ones, so in this case i cannot take it as your own opinions"

Anything I say is by definition my opinion.
Many people sharing an opinion does not affect its validity, of the people that I am friends with only maybe 5 have similar opinions to what I have and most got it from me. Your opinion is shared by many people but doesnt affect its validity, nor make it a steriotype (which the muslims being thugs and killing and burning everything is, basically all religions that have been around for a decent while have similar things in their past).
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:54 am

I think most people call themselves Christians cause they are taught that its the only right wy to think. Or they are only in it for the fact that "their soul will be saved". They don't actually earn it at all. Thats why I don't consider most people that take that label as actual christians.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:18 am

Mmm ValhallanKnight, that gets to a hard problem, how tell them apart, particularly to an atheist like me.
It would be interesting to see how a religion with no penalties for people who don't follow it would turn out.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:57 pm

Edible wrote:
Might I recommend the edit button for fixing things, it is preferable at least to me, over double posts.

As far as I am concerned everyone that considers themselves christian is a christian, if you want to defend your specific sect, that is cool and you may be right, I know little to nothing about "eastern european christianinity" and so will assume its okay, but as far as christianity as a whole goes it is to an extent responsible for all that is done in its name.

"your knowledge about christianity is limited to catholicism"

I think most christians I know a protestants of some form, which at least according to them is not catholicism.

Nobody is telling anyone to go and kill things, but if someone reads your book and decides to do so, you should consider why.

"not examples from my private life - just like you did - but from what i have seen"

What exactly does this mean, isn't what you see your private life and vice versa.

"but i did not mean that you insulted me; just my sentences o.0 ."

How exactly does one insult a sentence? I am confused.

"And you cannot prove that those things are your opinions because they aren't - just common ones, so in this case i cannot take it as your own opinions"

Anything I say is by definition my opinion.
Many people sharing an opinion does not affect its validity, of the people that I am friends with only maybe 5 have similar opinions to what I have and most got it from me. Your opinion is shared by many people but doesnt affect its validity, nor make it a steriotype (which the muslims being thugs and killing and burning everything is, basically all religions that have been around for a decent while have similar things in their past).

thanks for your suggestion in what regards the button

You are misunderstanding my messages. I am not defending anything, and orthodox christianity is not a sect, because it is not and has never been separated from the official church; I told you about orthodoxy to show you that christianity isn't only catholicism or protestantism, and i also wanted to explain that if some people did not have an inquisition, did not kill their own belief-comrades it means that the problem is not the religion itself, but the people and the ideas and the purpose that hide behind their actions, these are the problem and not the religion.

Responsible? for what ? why ? how come ? ( : ) we have already talked about this.. you are always returning to it - don't answer to these questions because you have already my answers and i have yours too )

I do not care whatever protestant people say or any other sect. It is proven that catholicism
gave birth to protestantism and protestantism to other sects. The first protestants were catholics. Nowadays protestants are not catholic people, as christians are not jews anymore, but protestantism came out of catholicism.

You know what I meant with private life. I did not give examples from my private life, from what happened to me because nobody will believe it, because i have no proof ; i gave examples from other people's private life, from what happened to them. From my point of view my own private life is what i do between 4 walls, and what happens to me - on outside and affects me deeply on inside - , my deep thoughts and secrets, and not what i see because everybody can see what i see, but nobody can feel what I feel, think etc. - this is my private life and not what i see because my eyes do not make you understand or see my personality. ==> if you want to answer to this, just do it for the "seeing" thing you were talking about and not about my comment about private life o.o.. stay on the subject.. i was just explaining..

About the insulting my sentences thing - it was a joke o.o

About the opinion:
- i was not talking about it by using its definition from the dictionary.
- you say you do not believe in it. ok. why ? you hate it because it did that and that . ok. why ? why ? why ? it must be more .. more explaining .. more examples .. why is it like that and give arguments .. real and strong ones ... not using the same over and over again .. convince me that you are an atheist ... what you really think about christianity .. not stereotypes .. your own thoughts .. your own arguments ... everybody has an argument .. his own thoughts .. and if it is their own arguments , their own thoughts , it will be original, new , interesting, worth of listening and debating on it. I am not saying that mine are, but i want exactly the deepest thought of an atheist about christianity and the arguments.

And people consider themselves christians because they grew up surrounded by people who were telling them that they are christians. When you are a child you learn whatever you want and need for your next "levels" in life - the basics. If you tell a kid that his mum died, he will start crying because he will believe you. If you tell a kid to come with you because you will give him a candy, he will because he will believe you. If you tell a kid over and over and over again that he is a christian, then he will believe you and consider himself a christian even if that is not his own opinion about himself - it has been implemented by someone else.

Religion is a part of everyone's culture. Religion = tradition = unwritten laws.
Christianity has laws. Islam has laws. Judaism has laws. these are ancient laws just like our society has its own laws, and some of them look like those that religion has. - maybe some people like christianity only for this side of it, and not for the way priests or fanatics see it; and religions are also a way of life ( i'm not talking about monks, isolating yourself, praying all day and stuff like that ).

I must remind you that we quite lost the main problem of the conversation, which was about frustrated and pariah kids hating christianity because it is fashionable - forgetting about other religions - even if they know nothing about it.

Conclusion : I just wanted to say ,in my first message, that if you hate christianity and not other religions, which are quite similar to it , means that you are quite confused and you just hate it because it is fashionable to hate it. So why hate christianity if you don't even know if the hate you are supposed to feel is a real one. It is quite odd to lie to yourself and also obliging yourself to have a feeling.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:47 pm

Edible wrote:
Mmm ValhallanKnight, that gets to a hard problem, how tell them apart, particularly to an atheist like me.
It would be interesting to see how a religion with no penalties for people who don't follow it would turn out.

Actually its not that hard to tell them apart. You just have to talk to them, get to know them. I have met some people who are "christians" but don't actually makea any effort to follow Jesus' Teachings. I have met people who actually try to follow the teachings. Thats how you can tell the difference. Its not how often they pray, or if they go to church every sunday. Cause according to the bible, "Church is where two or more are gathered in my name", which could be interpreted in many ways. I think technically this could be counted as church under that umbrella. That is one thing that you can usually tell. If someone only spends time with "christians" and calls themself a "christian", they are not a christian. If they are welcoming of non-christians, and will help them regardless, they are a christian.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:13 pm

Okay I feel that we have taken the thread over enough, so I might respond in private messages.

But as a simple response to that conclusion, I am in no way a pariah kid, I began to dislike christainity when a friend lent me the bible when I was 12, and I found a whole load of things I disagreed with (I am not entirely sure about what translation I got, but it was old and new testaments and I read them over the long summer holiday break we got (~8 weeks)). At that point in my life I don't think I knew anyone that was explicitly anti christian (note, I am aware that this is directly an anecdote of my life, but I don't see how I can explain why I am against it, without anecdotes, as what I think is a result of my internal state).

Okay ValhallanKnight, I know a few people like that, they are cool by large (few exceptions but you get that.), if thats what you define as christian people, I am cool with them.
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PostSubject: Re: Do You Believe In God   Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:45 am

A tweet that I read online..
"I haven't heard of a man beheading hostages or blowing up a bus, quoting christian texts"
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