Slayer

Christ Illusion is a really bad album.

Ripzz wrote:

Christ Illusion is a really bad album.

I completely disagree...It's not their best but it is far from bad...

Ripzz wrote:

Christ Illusion is a really bad album.

I think its a very average album. Good enough to play once and a while but nothing compared to the classic albums.

Heat wrote:

Ripzz wrote:

Christ Illusion is a really bad album.

I completely disagree...It's not their best but it is far from bad...

Slayer are millionaires now, and their equipment costs over $30,000 each - yet they still manage to have a muddy ass guitar sound on Christ Illusion like it was some teen band with crappy instruments and a low production budget. The songwriting on Christ Illusion is just plain bad, with 2 or 3 exceptions and Tom Araya's voice certainly doesn't sound at its best. It's certainly not of the quality I'd expect from a Slayer album - but then again they've been slowly deteriorating for a decade and a half now. If anything, Christ Illusion sounds rushed

Ripzz wrote:

Heat wrote:

Ripzz wrote:

Christ Illusion is a really bad album.

I completely disagree...It's not their best but it is far from bad...

If anything, Christ Illusion sounds rushed

Finally, that's how I feel about the album, I knew something didn't feel right and I couldn't put my finger on it. Rushed is exactly how it feels.

Heat wrote:

Ripzz wrote:

Christ Illusion is a really bad album.

I completely disagree...It's not their best but it is far from bad...

Same here. I liked Christ Illusion and I consider it good.

Slayer got me into metal.
The only albums I liked completely are Reign In Blood, Show No Mercy, Seasons In the Abyss and Hell Awaits (in order).
Christ Illusion was ok, I liked some tracks (Supremist, Jihad, Cult).
Its cool how Araya still has a great voice even though he is nearing his 50s.
He sounds like a fucking hypocrite tho, when he sings King's lyrics!..

Sorry for slow reply, but here goes:

Voggis
Yes man, I was not even born when RiB was released, but it does not make it less overated. Yes, it was not overrated back then, but right now every damn poser (such as every Guitar Hero wanker for example) listens to "RiB" and consider it to be the epitome of thrash metal when it's not. This album is actually closer to crossover then to thrash 'cause of its simlistic riffing, speed, "soulfull" soloing and 'shouty' vocals. And it holds nothing when compared to Possessed's "Seven Churches" (released in 1985) and Kreator's "Pleasure To Kill" (released same year as "RiB", 1986) in terms of speed, technical aspects and agression, so yes there were other fast and agressive albums back then and I would not say that it was "ahead of time"

Slaytanic
Don't want to make any personal insults (even though I was insulted), I understand that everyone is bound to have their own opinions and you too man, but I am not surprised to hear such offensive comment from Meshuggah fan

Heat
Well what can I do man, I listened to way too much thrash metal (actually it's the only one metal genre that I know well enough to start arguing), so I guess I know it too well and know better albums compared to which "RiB" is a hardly even a 'meh' album

TyECOK wrote:

Sorry for slow reply, but here goes:

Voggis
Yes man, I was not even born when RiB was released, but it does not make it less overated. Yes, it was not overrated back then, but right now every damn poser (such as every Guitar Hero wanker for example) listens to "RiB" and consider it to be the epitome of thrash metal when it's not. This album is actually closer to crossover then to thrash 'cause of its simlistic riffing, speed, "soulfull" soloing and 'shouty' vocals. And it holds nothing when compared to Possessed's "Seven Churches" (released in 1985) and Kreator's "Pleasure To Kill" (released same year as "RiB", 1986) in terms of speed, technical aspects and agression, so yes there were other fast and agressive albums back then and I would not say that it was "ahead of time"

First, Crossover is not a genre. Crossover is a term applied to musical works or performers appearing in differing musical tastes, or genres.

I can't see (or hear) that Reign in Blood or none of the other works with Slayer can be considered as crossover albums.

When we are discussing overrated albums, Pleasure To Kill by Kreator is one of them. It's nice that younger people discover old-school thrash bands, but often is "brutal" and "speed" used as measurment for quality.
Brutality and speed can be good, but there needs to be something behind it. Kreator have lots of it on Pleasure To Kill, but the lack of musical, technical and lyrical substance make this album at best mediocre.
They would eventually make some good albums in Extreme Agression and Coma Of Souls later. In places they are just as brutal and fast as their earlier albums, but shows more diversity in the song writing.

Pleasure To Kill never defined thrash metal back in the 80's, and it still doesn't.

Possessed isn't that different from Kreator, but at least they showed some superior technical skills, and more intelligence in their song writing. And of course, they are one of the most influencial metal bands of all time, as Seven Churches is considered as the first Death Metal album in history....

Voggis wrote:

TyECOK wrote:

Sorry for slow reply, but here goes:

Voggis
Yes man, I was not even born when RiB was released, but it does not make it less overated. Yes, it was not overrated back then, but right now every damn poser (such as every Guitar Hero wanker for example) listens to "RiB" and consider it to be the epitome of thrash metal when it's not. This album is actually closer to crossover then to thrash 'cause of its simlistic riffing, speed, "soulfull" soloing and 'shouty' vocals. And it holds nothing when compared to Possessed's "Seven Churches" (released in 1985) and Kreator's "Pleasure To Kill" (released same year as "RiB", 1986) in terms of speed, technical aspects and agression, so yes there were other fast and agressive albums back then and I would not say that it was "ahead of time"

First, Crossover is not a genre. Crossover is a term applied to musical works or performers appearing in differing musical tastes, or genres.

I can't see (or hear) that Reign in Blood or none of the other works with Slayer can be considered as crossover albums.

When we are discussing overrated albums, Pleasure To Kill by Kreator is one of them. It's nice that younger people discover old-school thrash bands, but often is "brutal" and "speed" used as measurment for quality.
Brutality and speed can be good, but there needs to be something behind it. Kreator have lots of it on Pleasure To Kill, but the lack of musical, technical and lyrical substance make this album at best mediocre.
They would eventually make some good albums in Extreme Agression and Coma Of Souls later. In places they are just as brutal and fast as their earlier albums, but shows more diversity in the song writing.

Pleasure To Kill never defined thrash metal back in the 80's, and it still doesn't.

Possessed isn't that different from Kreator, but at least they showed some superior technical skills, and more intelligence in their song writing. And of course, they are one of the most influencial metal bands of all time, as Seven Churches is considered as the first Death Metal album in history....

Pleasure To Kill is far from mediocre. It also didn't make a massive impact on the thrash scene because Kreator are from Germany, and the thrash scene was mostly centered around California and New York at the time, whilst the Germans had their own separate Teutonic thrash metal scene.

Nah....on the first two albums they sounds like Slayer rip-offs, just trying to be more impressive than they actually was, slightly adding a more extreme value of a never-ending stream of rapid riffs and drumming to get it's rather flimsy point across. Still we haven't mentioned the stupid lyrics they had on the first two....

Voggis wrote:

Nah....on the first two albums they sounds like Slayer rip-offs, just trying to be more impressive than they actually was, slightly adding a more extreme value of a never-ending stream of rapid riffs and drumming to get it's rather flimsy point across. Still we haven't mentioned the stupid lyrics they had on the first two....

Because Slayer's lyrics are just so full of meaning and they've released a plethora of good albums after Reign in Blood right?

Slayer's RIB is one of the most influential thrash albums ever made, regardless of opinion. That is a FACT.

Mash wrote:

Slayer's RIB is one of the most influential thrash albums ever made, regardless of opinion. That is a FACT.

Of course, but a Slayer fanboi calling Kreator's work mediocre when it's basically on par if not better than Slayer's discography is just silly. Kreator, Sodom and Destruction are just as influential as any American thrash band.

Ripzz wrote:

Of course, but a Slayer fanboi calling Kreator's work mediocre when it's basically on par if not better than Slayer's discography is just silly. Kreator, Sodom and Destruction are just as influential as any American thrash band.

I don't think they were as INFLUENTIAL as Slayer in terms of thrash, but that's kind of hard to prove, right?

If you are referring to how much "better" Kreator is than Slayer, well that's just an opinion.

Mash wrote:

Ripzz wrote:

Of course, but a Slayer fanboi calling Kreator's work mediocre when it's basically on par if not better than Slayer's discography is just silly. Kreator, Sodom and Destruction are just as influential as any American thrash band.

I don't think they were as INFLUENTIAL as Slayer in terms of thrash, but that's kind of hard to prove, right?

If you are referring to how much "better" Kreator is than Slayer, well that's just an opinion.

Well it depends on who you claim they're influencing. For the thrash scene, no they weren't as influential. But as far as Death Metal goes, almost every band cites Kreator and Destruction as influences - and plenty of Black Metal bands have Sodom alongside Venom.

Ripzz wrote:

Well it depends on who you claim they're influencing. For the thrash scene, no they weren't as influential. But as far as Death Metal goes, almost every band cites Kreator and Destruction as influences - and plenty of Black Metal bands have Sodom alongside Venom.

I was talking about thrash, not black and death metal. Its not fair to cite Kreator, Destruction, and Sodom as influential in genres that (arguably) have less to do with Slayer. Otherwise, I could say that the fucking New Kids on the Block were more influential than Kreator because they spawned the fucking boy band craze in the 90s.

Mash wrote:

Ripzz wrote:

Well it depends on who you claim they're influencing. For the thrash scene, no they weren't as influential. But as far as Death Metal goes, almost every band cites Kreator and Destruction as influences - and plenty of Black Metal bands have Sodom alongside Venom.

I was talking about thrash, not black and death metal. Its not fair to cite Kreator, Destruction, and Sodom as influential in genres that (arguably) have less to do with Slayer. Otherwise, I could say that the fucking New Kids on the Block were more influential than Kreator because they spawned the fucking boy band craze in the 90s.

Ripzz wrote:

Mash wrote:

Slayer's RIB is one of the most influential thrash albums ever made, regardless of opinion. That is a FACT.

Of course, but a Slayer fanboi calling Kreator's work mediocre when it's basically on par if not better than Slayer's discography is just silly. Kreator, Sodom and Destruction are just as influential as any American thrash band.

I didn't say Kreator's discography was mediocre compared to Slayer. I said Pleasure To Kill was a mediocre Kreator album. That's a big difference. From Terrible Certainty and to this day, Kreator have a really strong trek with solid albums.

I cannot say the same with Slayer about the albums they have released after Seasons In the Abyss.

Voggis
First - in metal crossover is a genre, all others are not.
Some examples of it - DRI, Municipal Waste, Wehrmacht, Blunt Force Trauma, The Accused, Excel etc...
Here's a wikipedia's link.

And why Slayer can't be crossover? During their carier they played lot's of different stuff - Speed, Thrash, Groove and even something pretty close to be called mallcore. Plus Haneman was always deeply influenced by hardcore punk (and DRI as well) and he wrote some of the most important riffing on "RiB".

Second - you will be mightly surprised man, but I consider "Pleasure To Kill" to be overrated as well (actually I agree with you that it's more overrated than "RiB"), but in terms of 'penis length comparison' "PTK" is still faster, angrier and more technical then "RiB" (unfortinately this does not make "PTK" a good album to listen to).

And I agree with you about "CoS" and "Extreme Agression", these albums are definitely some high quality releases (especially "CoS").

Thrash was more or less defined back in 1982 with releases of Sodom's "Witching Metal" Demo and Artillery's "We Are The Dead" Demo.

Whatever both Kreator and Slayer fucking rule, it's just that Slayers presence was felt a little more.

To even put Kreator in Slayers league as far as influence is utter ridiculousness. Really. You guys have got to be kidding.

To be honest, both bands have had some very good albums and some very bad albums. Slayers very good albums are much better than Kreators very good albums.

This thread is a Slayer thread. If you do not have anyhthing usefull to add don't post in the thread.

If you wanna start a Slayer V Kreator thread be my guest.

What's wrong with comparing them in this thread? There is only so much "Slayer only" content we can discuss, otherwise the thread will get stale and die. It's not like we have gone off topic.

Umm.. we haven't spoken about hair . Kerry King is now bald and Tom Araya is going grey. Discuss. lawl

Tom looks fucking old man, he really hasn't aged well.